View Poll Results: So which tyres did the Bumble Bee finally get?

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  • Goodyear Assurance Armorgrip

    2 28.57%
  • MRF ZLO

    3 42.86%
  • Bridgestone Turanza AR10

    2 28.57%
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Thread: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

  1. #1
    Marshal roms's Avatar
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    The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    That the Bumble Bee a.k.a the Palio 1.6 Sport required new shoes was known since the day I first laid my eyes on her somewhere in October 2012. The car came shod with worn out Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD2 tyres in the 195/60 R14 spec. However, its only today that I got a chance to see the tyres dismantled from the rims and boy was I shocked to see the condition of these tyres. More on that later.

    The Goodyears, though worn out, were pretty grippy and gave good steering feedback. The 'V' tread pattern looked as well! What I did not like was the absolutely hard ride and the truck tyre like noise at high speeds.

    So I finally decided that it was high time I switched to something that would retain the drive characteristics I would like, yet add a modicum of comfort factor for the family.

    My priorities thus were (from most important to least):

    1] Precise steering feedback and heavy steering;
    2] Handling and high speed performance;
    3] Durability;
    4] Comfort; and
    5] Noise

    I started my research online and tyres became a subject of discussion with enthusiasts and FIATians alike. The following tyres made my shortlist:

    1] Continental ContiPremiumContact 2 (CPC 2) - 195/60 R14 - known for superior handling (especially wet) capabilities:
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    2] Bridgestone Potenza MY 02 - 185/60 R14 - The new kid on the block - sporty unidirectional pattern that is set to replace the ageing Potenza GIII:
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    3] MRF ZLO - 195/60 R14 - A performance tyre made by an Indian manufacturer and offered at a mouth watering price:
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    4] Yokohama C drive - 185/60 R14 - A great all round asymmetric tyre that promises the best in comfort and handling:
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    5] Goodyear Assurance - 195/60 R14 - A comfort biased tyre that has high tech materials for added safety and a capable handler as well:
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    6] Michelin Energy XM2 - 185/60 R14 - Well, not really a contender for my requirements, had it as a fallback option nonetheless:
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    7] Bridgestone Turanza AR10 - A new touring pattern replacing the ageing yet praiseworthy Turanza ER 60, thus promising a lot:
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  2. #2
    Marshal roms's Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    I started narrowing down my choices based on user feedback that I could get hold of over the internet and otherwise. The new ISI regulations helped in my decision making process as well. According to these regulations a manufacturer needs to produce atleast 50K tyres of a particular variant (it seems), thereby ensuring to spoil the party for us enthusiasts who look for 'out of the ordinary' products.

    The ones to get dropped from contention were:

    1] Continental CPC2 - I remember the detailed (and yawn inducing for the uniniated ) technical discussions between the two biggies Ravvee and Pragal, during our Goan escapade with regards to these tyres. Based on the highly informative discussions, I made up my mind to get these for my Palio. Some, including Pragal said that these are supposed to be the next best thing after the Michelin PP2, which are are no longer available. Coming from Pragal, these became serious contenders.

    However, three things changed my mind:

    1] My budget was INR 5K (max) per tyre, while these were not available for less than 5.8K per tyre;
    2] Even if I wished to stretch my budget, availability (thanks to the ISI regulations) became a problem and the only stocks available with vendors were of 2011. If I did go for these anyway, what guarantee of availability did I have in case of a replacement requirement?; and
    3] Surprisingly, there were mixed reviews for these tyres. Some said that while they were exceptional in the wet, dry traction and braking were mediocre. Now that did not help, even if I wanted to take a bold decision and go aheadA combination of the above factors made me drop these from my list.

    2] Bridgestone Potenza MY02 - Was bowled over by the looks more than anything else. Did not find any reviews online, maybe because these were a recent addition to the Potenza line up for the APAC region.

    However, based on my current experience with unidirectional tyres, decided to drop them since I did not want to risk getting tyres that would become noisy once they cross the 20K mark. To add to it, the limitations on rotating unidirectional tyres in case of future issues was also a worry. So, these went out of contention as well.

    3] Michelin Energy XM2 - From my past experience with the Energy XM1+, the review of which I have posted elsewhere on the forum, I know for a fact that the energy series of Michelin provides unparalleled levels of comfort and low noise characteristics. But I never enjoyed the light steering with reduced steering feedback, braking and dry handling of these tyres. They were exceptional in the wet though. So it shocked many a 'tyre wallah' when I outrightly refused the Michelins this time around. All said and done, did not want to risk a similar experience.

    Also, Pugger Muthu confirmed my apprehensions day before yesterday during the Mumbai meet. He was not totally satisfied with the new XM2 on his Palio 1.2. Said they were not as grippy as his earlier Potenza G3 and that he was not enjoying them much. So the totally comfort biased Michelins went out. If only a Pilot Sport 3 or a Pilot Precedas was available in the 14 inch size today. I would have robbed a bank and picked them up...but thanks to the ISI regulations....Sigh!

    4] Yokohama C drive - Rudrah has these on his Palio Stile 1.6 and I remember him mentioning here as well on another forum that he felt the steering had become a bit too light for his liking. Apart from that, these tyres are exceptional and a perfect balance of comfort and handling, something that put these tyres right up there on my list of contenders. However, rudrah's case was not an isolated one. While users praised its dry and wet handling capabilities, high levels of comfort and low noise levels, the slightly light steering was disconcerting to many.

    If you go through my priorities mentioned above, I am fickled minded when it comes to steering feedback and weight. I want the steering bristling with feedback, letting me know on what kind of road I am driving on and I also need a well weighted steering. So, inspite of the fact that tyre wallahs and users rate these as the best tyres for a mix of ride and handling, I dropped them due to the above.

    5] Bridgestone Turanza AR10 - If someone has a decent budget and does not mind paying about 5.5K per tyre, these are probably the ones to go for. Reason - they are the replacement for the highly acclaimed Turanza ER 60. They are supposed to be better than the ER60! Now that is saying something. Although they are new in the market, there are favourable reviews for these soft compound (unlike most Bridgestone) tyres that promise a good driving experience in terms of handling, comfort and low noise. The ISI regulations would not bother these tyres and I am sure these will be available here in India for some time to come.

    Somehow I could not gather the courage or the moolah to spend 5.5K since I did not know exactly how much better (if at all) these would be in comparison to my last two contenders!

    To be continued....
    Last edited by roms; 05-02-2013 at 06:23 PM.

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    Marshal Ravveendrra B's Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Now you have me glued to this thread. Waiting for the story to unfold and for the eventual reviews of the tyres as they age.

    Cheers,
    I do not honk. I downshift instead.

  4. #4
    Marshal roms's Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    I recently spoke to a tyre wallah who said that in his opinion, tyre brands in India would fall in the following numerical sequence, based on his vast experience and feedback from his users:

    1] Michelin;
    2] Yokohama;
    3] Bridgestone;
    4] Goodyear; and
    5] The bottom rung consisting of JK tyres, Apollo and MRF

    And I agreed with him. So rightfully, its the softer compound tyres on top and the harder ones taking the bottom positions. But lets not forget, the above is only if you take most products by a brand in totality. In isolation, a Bridgestone may make a Turanza series which would probably be as soft as a Yoko or Michelin.

    One can't really argue with the experience of the tyre wallahs. These guys sell this stuff night and day, they know what they are selling more than anyone else. They know which tyre will last the distance, which tyre won't have the consumer coming back to them due to complaints.

    However, due to their their prior experience with the above brands, these guys will have preconceived notions if we tell them 'Hey, MRF has come up with a soft compound tyre called the ZLO that is high on grip and comfort and low on noise and mileage!'. I have been unanimously called a fool by various tyre wallahs (either explicitly or otherwise by gestures) to consider a brand like MRF, which is known to make hard wearing, durable tyres that are low on comfort and grip.

    And trust me, it did take a lot of self convincing to even consider MRF as a probable contender. Afterall, even if they have got massively positive reviews from users today, what is the guarantee that these tyres will retain their supposedly high levels of grip after say 20K kms?

    Anyways, so what got me and a lot of other first time MRF users hooked was a thread on team bhp by a tyre wallah from Bangalore who had replaced the mighty Yokohama AD 07 tyres with the MRF ZLO and posted his experience on Team-BHP!

    This is what got me hooked and I quote:

    "Initial impressions

    Very soft. They do not feel like MRFs. It feels like any other Michelin or Yoko. It feels softer than the A drives to be honest. The sidewall is also soft. This feels and looks like a tyre which will perform as well as the Yokos and the Michelins and will also be as easy to damage! I dont expect this MRF to last 50-70k kms! I also think this sidewall will get damaged if you hit a pothole at high speed.

    The ride quality is really really soft. My old tyres, the AD07s, are known to be very hard but these are really soft. They really glide over broken roads and absorb the bumps very well. The cat-eyes on the BETL expressway make a racket when my AD07s go over them but with the MRFs, even that is reduced substantially.

    I have been driving on the same roads I drive on regularly and the ride overall seems to be much much better.

    Ride Quality: HUGE HUGE improvement over regular MRFs. Right up there with Yokos and Michelins. Probably not as good as the Michelins but I'm very confident it can match the Yokos.

    Silence: Very silent. I dont have too many things to say about this as tyre noise is never a factor for me.

    Braking:

    I made sure the BETL expressway was empty behind me and then accelerated to 80 kmph and stood on the brakes. They brake very fast. They hold the road well but there is a major tendency to wiggle about. My Neovas held their line and braked in a straight line. With the MRFs, I could feel the back starting to let go a little bit. The car needed a firm grip on the steering wheel. The shocking aspect was this: I didnt feel the ABS kicking in! That means the tyres are genuinely holding onto the road!

    Cornering: Grips well. Havent pushed it as much as I would like but in the 2 corners I did take, the MRFs were extremely good. Obviously not as stable as the AD07s but they held their line without too much drama. Absolutely NO squealing.

    I'll be going to the airport tomorrow morning and there is one lovely curve on the way back which is usually deserted. Will try the tyres there and report back.

    Conclusion:
    I cannot believe MRF has made tyres which are actually this soft and grippy.

    I know a lot of people will be skeptical and it's understandable. I would be too if I didnt have access to so many tyres. I would hesitate to plonk down money on these tyres as well. However, now, I'm beginning to change my mind. They look like nice tyres which might actually work for most of us enthusiasts. I honestly didnt think I would be saying this about MRF tyres, but there you go!

    Manufacturing quality is superb for an MRF and right up there with the imported tyres.

    I dont know if I can compare these with the C drives directly as I dont have access to a car with C drives. I can only compare these with the Neovas and knowing how far ahead of the competition the Neovas are, I can give my opinion.

    I tested the tyres today on my way back from the airport. Bangaloreans will know that while coming back from the airport, there is a road that goes towards Hyderabad.

    Unknown road to Unknown road - Google Maps

    I usually use this 270 degree curve to test tyres. It's deserted most of the time as the traffic usually goes towards Bangalore.

    The ZLOs amazed me. They didnt squeal until pushed really really hard. Even then, they held on very well. Let's not get into what speeds I did but to sum up, I was able to maintain the same speeds I used to do with the Advan Neovas. Except that the Neovas are more stable. By stable, I mean they require less steering corrections while cornering. The MRFs require a little more alertness.

    My dad also commented on how much the ride quality has improved in my car.

    I havent driven the ZVTVs and so cant comment on it. I think the ZLOs are much better than anything MRF has made till now.

    I would like to keep testing these tyres and will keep updating this thread with my thoughts.

    No comparison to the CPC2s. I pushed them hard again yesterday and it felt EVEN better!

    Blows the CPC2s out of the water. The CPC2s may have a chance only in the wet.
    "

    Also, here is a video (more of a promotion by MRF) that I found on Youtube:-

    MRF ZLO Blind Test - YouTube

    Well, atleast my 'arm chair' research revealed that these tyres should be considered, given that they were supposedly a steal at about 4.3K per tyre. However, what was holding me back was:

    1] The MRF brand itself. Have experienced Bridgestone, Michelin, Goodyear and Apollo. But MRF?
    2] The apprehension pertaining to the unknown once these tyres age. Having released only in 2011, not many have crossed that mileage mark.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by roms; 05-02-2013 at 06:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Marshal Rudrah's Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Great going, Roms. I'm glued to this thread too, seems like its going to be a mother of all Tyre buying experience threads.

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  6. #6
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Snaps please
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  7. #7
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    The man has finally done it! I, along with many others here are privy to this journey of Roms, which has been nothing short of a movie flick and the best part is that we don't know how the hunt ended.

    Dude- you are one narrator and you have all of us hooked on to this thread. Real keen to know how this will end.

    I am thinking of placing bets and even running a poll if you will, with your permission ofcourse .

    My bets are on the Zlo ( I do like Jlo, hence the bias).

    Keep this going....

    cheers,
    If everything is in control, you aren't going fast enough.

  8. #8
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Quote Originally Posted by roms View Post
    Continental CPC2 - I remember the detailed (and yawn inducing for the uniniated ) technical discussions between the two biggies Ravvee and Pragal, during our Goan escapade with regards to these tyres. Based on the highly informative discussions, I made up my mind to get these for my Palio. Some, including Pragal said that these are supposed to be the next best thing after the Michelin PP2, which are are no longer available. Coming from Pragal, these became serious contenders.
    Well you had to quote that legendary Goa conversation didn't you? In hindsight (after all the cribbing that Rudrah & I were doing when the tyre-mania was on), I feel as privileged as the famous piegons which listened in on the conversation between lord Shiva and Parvati and became immortal.

    If Pragal had his way with you, he would have you import the PP3s from wherever they are available outside India

    I like Ram's idea of placing bets here.
    I see a toss-up between the Turanza AR10 if Roms figures out the moolah or the MRF Zlo not because I like Jlo like Ram but because I know Roms would be open to experiment on something new. Also, I don't see Roms mentioning anywhere that he wants a mile-cruncher of a tyre.

    Nevertheless, fantastic thread Roms
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  9. #9
    Marshal roms's Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    So the MRF ZLO made it to my list of final two contenders. The other finalist was a surprise entry - The Goodyear Assurance.

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    Frankly, although I had heard about these tyres some five years back when they were launched, I never bothered to look them up whilst doing my research. That is only because these were just not considered by most users or even the tyre guys themselves.

    It so happened that I had a brief chat with the owner of 'Changemytyre.com' - Mr. Manjeet last week. Told him that I was contemplating between various tyre options and most probably would go for MRF ZLO in 195/60 R14 size.

    According to him, although the ZLO was a good tyre, the Goodyear Assurance were a better bet. He also clearly mentioned that he was not recommending these tyres because he wanted to push his stock and that I was free to purchase these from any place else.

    I put forth my requirements for good steering response, high speed handling and grip and he said that the Assurance were the tyres to go for. They were highly underrated.

    Further, asked him if he would suggest the Michelin XM2 or Yokohama C drive over these and he said the Assurance would still be better!

    And the cost? Well at 4.5K a piece, these were just right for my budget.

    So now I thought to myself, well, if these are really good, then I don't need to experiment with a 'lower' brand like the MRF. Further research on these tyres revealed that the tyres were highly acclaimed in the APAC region and the few who used these tyres were very happy with the handling, grip and comfort.

    The talking point of the Goodyear Assurance Armorgrip tyres was well....the 'Armorgrip technology'. The Assurance is the only tyre other than the Michelin Primacy LC to have Dupont's Kevlar layer reinforcement, and that adds immense resistance against cuts, tears, etc. Kevlar is supposedly five times stronger than regular steel. Also, the outside shoulder buttons of the tyres consisted of something called the 'waffle blade' tech, so as to enhance handling and traction. The tyres also had silica based compound. So you see, it was a tyre with pretty high tech materials to make it a safe and durable tyre, atleast it made one believe so. But the name 'Assurance' does not excite the enthusiast in me.

    To understand the tech behind this tyre, here is the microsite of the Assurance Armorgrip:

    New Goodyear Assurance with ArmorGrip Technology

    Well, now that the 'safe' aspect was dealt with, what about the fun factor?

    Thats when I came across this independent review of 15 different tyres conducted by a magazine by the name of 'Choice' in Australia in 2010.

    The Good Year Assurance came out tops on parameters such as dry and wet cornering grip and dry and wet braking distances.

    Noteworthy competitors were:

    1] Bridgestone Turanza AR10;
    2] Michelin Energy XM1+;
    3] Pirelli P7; and
    4] Yokohama A drive amongst others.

    Please see the attached pdf document for the results. Incidentally, the Assurance also won the same award in the consequent year as well.

    media_release_.pdf

    What surprised me is the fact that these tyres are just not popular in India, probably a consequence of lack of adequate advertising and promotion by Goodyear?

    That was it then. I (and I think most FIATians) like underdogs. The continuous central rib on these tyres suggested that they were comfort biased touring tyres, but were supposedly very good in handling as well. And I somehow had developed a liking for the brand since my Palio was shod with Goodyear tyres. Also, being a pure symmetric tread pattern, rotating tyres would never be an issue.

    Now I was well and truly excited. My long hunt for a worthy set of tyres for the Bumble Bee was finally over. The Goodyear Assurance Armorgrip was my winner. Called up Trevor of Straightline Tyres, Santacruz (W) last Friday, 31 January 2013 and asked him to order these tyres. Told him I would make a visit to his shop on Saturday and get them fitted once the tyres arrived.

    Trevor, who I was constantly discussing my tyre options with on whatsapp, breathed a sigh of relief when he realised that I did not go in for the MRF and 'settled' for the Goodyears atleast. Settled because like any other tyre wallah, Trevor too was rooting for the Michelin XM2 or Yokohama C drive

    To be continued - Picture abhi baaki hai mere dost
    Last edited by roms; 06-02-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    yes yes. my A-drives are bald and steering is feather light not the kind I loved in my GTX. Let us know how is the steering feel after you installed the tire. I wanna grow my arms like Arnold

  11. #11
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Just what the doctor ordered. this is simply brilliant roms. I too am in the market for a tyre change now. glued to the thread

  12. #12
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    What a great journey to go through detailed info on all tyres. It was not tyresome to read. When are you giving Pragalbh a test ride.
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Hey Roms, I knew you would go the under-dog way. However, didn't guess that it would be the GYs.

    BTW, do you have any idea (from the tyre wallahs or from the reviews) about the road noise created by the GY Assurance series?
    GYs have traditionally been known to be high on the road noise factor - especially after 10k kms.
    My lug nuts require more torque than your Honda makes

  14. #14
    Marshal MK..\M/'s Avatar
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Finally you have got the assurance
    "Knowledge is micro vision where as Wisdom is macro"
    - MK..\M/

  15. #15
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    re: The Bumble Bee gets new shoes! EDIT: Its the MRF ZLO!

    Quote Originally Posted by MK..\M/ View Post
    Finally you have got the assurance
    MK-I still think there is a twist to the tale. Remember Roms not having the new tyres on his BB on Sunday. So a lot could have happened in the planned buy of the Assurances.

    I still have my bets firmly placed on the Zlo.

    cheers,
    If everything is in control, you aren't going fast enough.

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